Curse

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I am sure there is a general Administrator tool for this already ingame, so I am just asking for it to be made public for players to view.

How about an Evil Eye system report outside the game to see interesting things like this, ( Like a weekly release of Server Data, probably to the forums, to let people delve through it )

A Top 50 list of :

1. Most used Skill In PvE over a week.

2. Most used Skill in PvP over a week.

Note: 1. , 2. , can be also divided further categories into their various proffesions and for PvE, the mode of play too (normal/hard).

3. Number of Players in normal mode instances in a week. ( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

4. Number of Players in Hard mode instances in a week. ( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

5. Most entered instance in a week in normal mode]( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

6. Most entered instance in a week in hard mode]( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

7. Most Bought/Sold Runes in a week.
And so on and so forth.

Think of it as a good way for players to gauge and make assessments. This give players who scream or whine for a nerf/buff justification to do so in the forums, because there are statistics to back or disprove their statements.

Alot of Analyse / Opinions within the forums can then be validated. Also, this type of news will also alllow players to see trends, flavours of the week.

Edit: Remove 7. about the Runes one

7. Number of instances entered by a single player in a party (solo with H/H) in normal mode instances in a week. ( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

8. Number of instances entered by a single player in a party (solo with H/H) in hard mode instances in a week. ( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

9. Number of instances entered by a multiple players in a party in normal mode instances in a week. ( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

10. Number of instances entered by a multiple players in a party in hard mode instances in a week. ( At least 10~15 mins to ensure that only instances which are actually been utilized are counted )

11. Most used Class In PvE over a week in normal mode in any instance. ( At least 15 mins to ensure the Class is beign utilised )

12. Most used Class In PvE over a week in hard mode in any instance. ( At least 15 mins to ensure the Class is beign utilised )

13. Average Size of parties entering in any instance in normal mode over a week.( At least 15 mins to ensure the instance is beign utilised )

14. Average Size of parties entering in any instance in hard mode over a week.( At least 15 mins to ensure the instance is beign utilised )

Once again I like this idea alot as it can help to separate WHAT is really just OPINION or FACT asserted by forumers here. Alot of people, it seems just likes to make assertions and speculative allegations.

Without justifiable proof or statistics, ALOT of threads on the forum, often just end into "TROLLING" or "FLAMES", when dual opposing sides start trading "barbs" on another's side.

Statistics like this WILL instantly melt any opinion which is non-justified.

Lynyrd Skynyrd · May 10, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

5 useless functions and a way for idiots to predict where the rune market will go?

/notsigned.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

The 1st 5 AIN'T useless, this is to give statistics and facts to PPLE who scream for certain things being unfair some sort of justifiable proof of their statements.

I am far too annoyed with seeing pple everywhere just making generalised sweeping statements WITHOUT any proof to justify what they just said. And NO, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE from one person's or a guild's or just the surrounding peers or the group he hangs out with DOES not qualify to represent the ENTIRE spectrum of Guild War players.

With these type of statistical releases in game, rebuttals and allegations assessments made in forums can be concrete.

As for 6, if the purpose is to prevent Rune Market assessment for the sake of the economy, I guess drop it then. BUT I don't see how can the 1st 5 can be affecting the economy.

holababe · May 10, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

I see no point in adding this to the game.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by holababe

I see no point in adding this to the game.

To separate FACT from OPINION when people start posting threads in the forums. FAR too many threads end up in "FLAMES" or "TROLLING", because one side throws allegations against the other.

With such statistics in place, NO ONE can start making SWEEPING and OVER GENERALISED statements in the forum again, without being shot in the mouth by statistics.

Operative 14 · May 10, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

I don't see much point in adding this. While it would be interesting to know some of that information every now and then, I don't see any reason to actually add it.

And I'm not sure what generalizations you're talking about, either. I think most of the assessments like that are common knowledge (I.E., Ectos are cheaper than they were before) or they are obviously generalizations (I.E., Everybody uses Ursan, or everyone makes generalizations without have any statistics to prove their arguement.)

Besides, this is a public forum to facilitate discussions and provide proof thereof. If I were to make a general statement saying something, I would make a statement, and see if others agree with me. We don't need statistics to prove anything, people here provide the proof or the disproof depending on the conversation.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

I don't see much point in adding this. While it would be interesting to know some of that information every now and then, I don't see any reason to actually add it.

And I'm not sure what generalizations you're talking about, either. I think most of the assessments like that are common knowledge (I.E., Ectos are cheaper than they were before) or they are obviously generalizations (I.E., Everybody uses Ursan, or everyone makes generalizations without have any statistics to prove their arguement.)

Besides, this is a public forum to facilitate discussions and provide proof thereof. If I were to make a general statement saying something, I would make a statement, and see if others agree with me. We don't need statistics to prove anything, people here provide the proof or the disproof depending on the conversation.

Proof by argument is NOT necessarily enough. Statistics on the other hand is for ALL to see, and will destroy any trollers or flamers who want to just be self manical and egomaniacs, driving such people into silence, when statistics prove them otherwise

Statistics ACTUALLY help to facilitate discussions, because, when there is actual statiscal references to back or disprove opinions being made, people can make more accurate assessments about WHAT is really imbal, and WHAT really needs nerf/buff, and so on and so forth.

Up to now, all that being said is up to personal PERSPECTIVE and PERCEPTIONS, while this is fine to a large extent, A LARGE majority END up being entangled in "FLAME" or "TROLL" wars when disparity in viewpoints appear. This can be seen very frequently.

The statistics here will provide as some sort of concrete proof to justify a player's allegations to a large extent.

In the end, PEOPLE will know, which posters are the ones who are posting JUST based on their opinions, and which posters are the ones doing it based on concrete evidence.

Potentially "OVER GENERALISED" statements which can end up in flame wars.

"PvE is far too easy". ==> Statisics will dispell or backup that statement, based on number of player ratios in Hard/Normal mode instances over a week.

"UB is far too overpowering in PvE" ==> Statistics will prove ONCE and FOR ALL, whether this holds true.

"Certain Skills are TOTALLY IMBAL, NERF IT!" ==> Statistics will once again tell whether this is really true, based on the number of players using it in PvP and PvE, based on the ratio of number of times the skill is used in comparison with others.

"PUGs are non existent anymore! Someone nerf heroes more please !!!" ==> Statistics will once again dispell or prove this myth.

Opinions are fine, but opinions backed up with concrete evidence makes any poster FAR more credible and respectable.

Just being VOCAL over an issue, does not necessarily mean it represents EVERY single player in the GW spectrum.

Trax Reborn · May 10, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Anet has better things to do.

PS- LOOK at me use CAPS to make SOME words seem IMPORTANT for use in A pointless arguement.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax Reborn

Anet has better things to do.

PS- LOOK at me use CAPS to make SOME words seem IMPORTANT for use in A pointless arguement.

True, they have better things to do, but its just a suggestion. I apologise if CAPS hurt you.

PS- You have not made a single argument stating that why my idea is bad, so I am assuming I left you speechless.

Deadly Thorn · May 10, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

True statistics can be fine and all but you have to know that this is also a game played by younger players.

About 1 + 2
They'll see the so called "statistics" as ways to say "Hey thats popular lets play that now", doesn't that sort of delete the whole purpose of Guild Wars to new players as they get an idea that there are popular things, whilst it is about playing what you like and finding things out.
Thats just my thought about how some players could think about those statistics.
Statistics would just confuse new players that they should continue following what others do.
For more experienced players it won't be much different as some follow the meta and some don't, atleast they have a better view about this.

I also dont see how 3 till 6 can actually help, this will just show what's being farmed alot, i don't see the point in that.
Sure for some starting farmers it could show that they could farm that, but then again the more people that farm the same thing the bigger the prices will drop.

Runes 7:
This could actually be usefull, but instead of showing how many are bought instead showing the average price at which theyre bought (this shows how much the price has gone up/down when you check @ the trader), this way you could wait a tad for the prices to go down to buy em or further up to sell them.

Other 7 to 14:

I dont see really how this would provide any information needed to prove a certain thing in for example a forum as you stated, could you explain this further?

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Thorn

True statistics can be fine and all but you have to know that this is also a game played by younger players.

About 1 + 2
They'll see the so called "statistics" as ways to say "Hey thats popular lets play that now", doesn't that sort of delete the whole purpose of Guild Wars to new players as they get an idea that there are popular things, whilst it is about playing what you like and finding things out.
Thats just my thought about how some players could think about those statistics.
Statistics would just confuse new players that they should continue following what others do.
For more experienced players it won't be much different as some follow the meta and some don't, atleast they have a better view about this.

I also dont see how 3 till 6 can actually help, this will just show what's being farmed alot, i don't see the point in that.
Sure for some starting farmers it could show that they could farm that, but then again the more people that farm the same thing the bigger the prices will drop.

Runes 7:
This could actually be usefull, but instead of showing how many are bought instead showing the average price at which theyre bought (this shows how much the price has gone up/down when you check @ the trader), this way you could wait a tad for the prices to go down to buy em or further up to sell them.

Other 7 to 14:

I dont see really how this would provide any information needed to prove a certain thing in for example a forum as you stated, could you explain this further?

I will try. Alot of arguments and threads made on forums are concerning imbalances in skills, environments, Player versus Player etc.

Alot of the threads made, while it in essence inself is not bad, have often turned in full out slugfests, creating what we call "flame" and "troll" wars.

This sorely degrades the thread itself, when more and more view points are thrown out one by one.

Having the statistics, will actually help for older and more discerning players to analyse what people are saying, and see whether it is true or otherwise.

Say this:
" PvE is FAR too easy!" ==> By checking the balance of ratio of players who are playing in normal mode and in hard mode, it is actually easier to gauge whether this sentiment holds true.

And please don't say "what about the new players" ? Remember, this game is already 3 years old, I am sure there are enough players who have completed the game.

The ratio itself is NOT perfect, but it provides a statistic or a benchmark for people to decide whether the afore mentioned sentiment holds true.

Just reading a player say "PvE is FAR too easy!" isn't exactly representative of what might be happening to the entire spectrum of GW players engaged in PvE.

Going by this angle, statistics of how much certain skills are being used can help players to justify whether "Imbal SKILL! NERF it!" holds true. This can be seen by the number of times a skill is being used over a week, once player catches wind of it.

This is because if a skill gains popular use over a week, chances are it is much better or too strong, due to relative ease of its usage. This applies to PvP too.

Once again, I am very sure the Dev's already have their own "Evil Eye" actually, which monitors such Server Data already. It all depends on whether they want to reveal it to the players.

IMHO, this can actually solve alot of the Dev's grief when it comes to complaints and whinings and what not from players and forum posters alike.

Statistics here help to create an artifical, while not perfect, measurable benchmark for all to see.

Also if younger players do not understand statistics too deeply, its fine. They are many players who can intepret statistics well on the forums. And those who do, will be more then willing to translate what a certain statistic means to back up their claims or assertions.

Luminarus · May 10, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Not actually worth ANets time and effort to input, although considering some new implementations (z-title/rank, i suppose it aint that big a deal.

N1ghtstalker · May 10, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

ppl don't care about how many ppl play in HM or NM
they only care about what they do in NM and HM ^.~

miskav · May 10, 2008, 11:04 AM // 11:04

I don't see the point of adding this, other then maybe wanting a quick-fix for some QQ'ing.

Though, most of the reasons you gave for wanting to see this; e.g. wanting to see if ursan is really overpowered. Are stupid reasons, I mean.. look at the damn skill?
Same for other skills that are imba, you can SEE that they are imba, why would you need A-net to waste their time on something that would only comfirm what we already knew?

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 01:38 PM // 13:38

To stop people from making groundless accusations. Alot of threads here have already turned into flame wars.

Some players might actually like to get an overall UNBIASED view of the game, without having to hear coloured opinions of players.

A global release of statistics over a week will help them to gauge for themselves what is truely going on within the GW. Rumours, statements, and just utter animosity is built upon warring sides who often throw barbs at one another, based on:

1. Personal Experience

2. Views from only guilds/alliance

3. The times they spent in outposts.

4. Personal beliefs

ALL these are NOT good indicators of the actual situation within GW, as everyone is and has a limited sphere of influence. Global Data and statistics from the GW world collected provides the best, impartial proof, as numbers DON'T give opinions, they just present facts.

As far as I am concerned, up to this point, the only naysayers are those, who fear that once their opinions and statements can be rebutted with concrete proof, they have no standing or face left. Knowledge is power.

Let the truth come out. This actually benefits all.

Here are the reasons why I believe this is actually doable and realistic.

1. Such a system already exists for the Dev's, for them to release actual data, is no different from releasing statuses report.

2. Gives Dev's concrete proof that whatever patch / updates to skills they make have some form of numerical justification.

~ Dan ~ · May 10, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

OP, stop using caps to exaggerate. There's this and this to do it. Caps are just annoying.

/notsigned since this is a pointless idea.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

I don't find it pointless, I feel that when opinions and statements made are backed up with statistical proof, I have a better inclination of believing what they say.

Besides, the only people who argue against such a system, are those who fear having to eat their words in front of the truth.

Let those who dare to express their opinions have also the ability to back up what they say with statistical evidence, not just hearsay.

FengShuiDove · May 10, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

I wouldn't like to see it in-game, but if they posted this kind of statistic I'd read it all the way through regardless of length. I just like statistics. As far as in-game though, it doesn't really have a point.

Mewcatus · May 10, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

I wouldn't like to see it in-game, but if they posted this kind of statistic I'd read it all the way through regardless of length. I just like statistics. As far as in-game though, it doesn't really have a point.

Hmm, i get your point, I wouldn't want to read it just inside the game, ( Some of the text rendered actually hurts my eyes.)

Good point. I will edit my initial idea.

I D E L E T E D I · May 10, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

To those saying its not worth ANets time, erm Zaishen Rank/Title anyone. Retarded System to split PvE from PvP? Gaile Gray suck up festival? Seriously that argument doesn't stick anymore.

/signed because I am a Statistics Freak